Sunday, April 20, 2008

Islam's cult of Allah and Muhammad's terror - 3

This is the third in a series of posts that has less to do with discussing Islam with Muslims, and more to do with non-Muslim ignorance to the vicious cult of Islam.

In Parts 1 and 2, I demonstrated that Islam means "submission" not "peace," and that the Quran is extremely violent when you understand verse abrogation, and the history of Muhammad.

Here, I will point out the fallacy of Islam's supposed tolerance of other faiths and of atheists. Let's start with the great Ayaan Hirsi Ali educating the uneducated on Dhimmitude and on Muslim intolerance


Dhimmis and "People of the Book"

So what is Ayaan Hirsi Ali referring to, and do 1000 year old churches and synagogues tell the full story? What about the apologist retort that Muslims protect "People of the Book" (Jews and Christians)? Well, first here is the Quran verse referenced by Ayaah Hirsi Ali:

9:29
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the (Jizya) tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.


Sounds almost exactly like her words in the video, except worse. Fight against them until they pay the Jizya tax acknowledging inferiority and live in a state of subjection. The word to describe people in such a state is "Dhimmi." How does it look in practice? (from
Al-Maghili, a fifteenth century Muslim theologian)

On the day of payment {of the jizya} they {the dhimmi} shall be assembled in a public place like the suq {place of commerce}. They should be standing there waiting in the lowest and dirtiest place. The acting officials representing the Law shall be placed above them and shall adopt a threatening attitude so that it seems to them, as well as to others, that our object is to degrade them by pretending to take their possessions. They will realize that we are doing them a favor in accepting from them the jizya and letting them go free. (Al-Maghili, quoted in Bat Ye'or, The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam, 361.)

Here's more from Sufi theologian and jurist al-Ghazali:

…the dhimmi is obliged not to mention Allah or His Apostle…Jews, Christians, and Majians must pay the jizya …on offering up the jizya, the dhimmi must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [the dhimmi] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]… They are not permitted to ostentatiously display their wine or church bells…their houses may not be higher than the Muslim’s, no matter how low that is. The dhimmi may not ride an elegant horse or mule; he may ride a donkey only if the saddle[-work] is of wood. He may not walk on the good part of the road. They [the dhimmis] have to wear [an identifying] patch [on their clothing], even women, and even in the [public] baths…[dhimmis] must hold their tongue….

Dhimmis were also prohibited from building churches, proselytizing or openly practicing their religion. Sounds like modern day Saudi Arabia, correct? Well, this is one reason why Wahabi Muslims in Saudi Arabia think they have the purest version of Islam. Dhimmitude was and is not pleasant, and it was also not the rule. In many cases, Jews and Christians were just made into slaves or killed. Find a full history here from Bat Ye'or and other scholars.

What about those that were not perfect in their Dhimmitude or did not want to live in a state of subjection:


…the whole Gaza region up to Cesarea was sacked and devastated in the campaign of 634. Four thousand Jewish, Christian, and Samaritan peasants who defended their land were massacred. The villages of the Negev were pillaged…Towns ...were isolated and closed their gates. In his sermon on Christmas day 634, the patriarch of Jerusalem, Sophronius, lamented…that the Christians were being forcibly kept in Jerusalem: ‘…chained and nailed by fear of the Saracens (Muslims),’ whose ‘savage, barbarous and bloody sword’ kept them locked up in the town…


Sophronius, in his sermon on the Day of the Epiphany 636, bewailed the destruction of the churches and monasteries, the sacked towns, the fields laid waste, the villages burned down by the nomads who were overrunning the country.


In a letter the same year to Sergius, the patriarch of Constantinople, he mentions the ravages wrought by the Arabs. Thousands of people perished in 639, victims of the famine and plague that resulted from these destructions.

According to [the Muslim chronicler] Baladhuri (d. 892 C.E.), 40,000 Jews lived in Caesarea alone at the Arab conquest, after which all trace of them is lost...

The above is only from the history of Palestine. In Moorish Spain, churches were turned right into mosques. In a strange irony, Muslims in Spain are now asking for equal rights to the Church of Cordoba. This church had been Christian, was turned into a mosque by the Moors, then turned back into a church. Destruction or alteration of Dhimmi property continues until today - Iran destroyed seven ancient synagogues just last week.

What about those that were not "People of the Book"? Well, let's start with the estimated millions of Hindus killed during the Muslim conquest of India.
K.S. Lal estimates up to 80 million killed, and, while others have criticized this number, most scholars concede of a death toll in the many millions.

Of course there are the 1/4 million Armenians murdered by the Turks. Then there were the original non-Muslims who lived in the core of today's Islamic strongholds: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt...was that a peaceful conversion? Well, it wasn't called "Muslim conquest" for nothing.

More in the next post...

13 comments:

Haid Dasalami said...

That’s an awesome video, Silly. I never saw it before, and I never thought I’d sit still to watch Bill Maher that long. But that was truly fascinating.

I agree with the one guy. What the f*** WAS he doing there?

Notice that in that dramatic moment when the host alluded to Ayaan’s name being pinned with a dagger to Van Gogh’s heart, he had to launch immediately into a joke. Leftists are uncomfortable with evil. They don’t want to admit it. They don’t want to think about it.

It’s hard to imagine a setting with a more striking juxtaposition of common imbecility against heroic greatness than in this recording of the noble Ms. Ali, no old goat, engaging the Three Stooges.

Thanks.

I’ll be around.

Regards,

HAID

Sheraz Alvi said...

Here is the simple challenge lets put Bible and Quran to test and see which is the untouched word of God. Both are books of God but which is the one undiluted by man for petty benefits. The truth is out there and it is visible and clear so lets put it to test.

What do you say????

Silly Allah said...

Why the tu quoque fallacy Sheraz? Why not just admit that the Koran is full of mistakes and the insane rantings a violent thief 1400 years ago?

Haid Dasalami said...

OK. I admit it. Mohammed definitely sucked. LOL.

This is great, Silly. You haven't published a word in half a year, but you've still got Mohammedans stopping by to pick a fight. Go figure.

What's funny is that he thinks you're going to defend the Bible. He can't even conceive of why an atheist/agnostic may have a bone to pick with Islam but not with Christianity. Like you could care what's in anyone's scriptures so long as they don't command your death or conversion. He must be retarded, however, if he thinks for a moment that you're eager to defend the Bible. LOL.

Anyway, where ya been? I hope all is well.

Regards,

HAID

Sheraz Alvi said...

What I was asking was talk on proper facts putting both books on trial rather than talking foolish which is not going to benefit anyone and harm your outlook showcasing how pure you are.

You say Quran is full of mistake where are they my friend Quran itself gives the challenge to all that if you think you can just bring one chapter like it and call anyone you can other then God Almighty indeed you will fail miserably.

Brother to start with we worship the same God the difference is that we dont consider anyone equal to God and hence dont worship them.

Here are the signs in Quran if you have an open heart to see them:

THE CHALLENGE OF THE QUR’AN
Literature and poetry have been instruments of human expression and creativity, in all cultures.
The world also witnessed an age when literature and poetry occupied pride of position, similar to that now enjoyed by science and technology.

Even non-Muslim scholars agree that the Qur’an is Arabic literature par excellence – that it is the best Arabic literature on the face of the earth. The Qur’an challenges mankind to produce the likes of it:

“And if ye are in doubt
as to what We have revealed
from time to time to Our servant,
then produce a Surah like
thereunto;
and call your witnesses or helpers
(if there are any) besides Allah,
if your (doubts) are true.
“But if ye cannot –
and of a surety you cannot –
then fear the Fire
whose fuel is Men and Stones –
which is prepared for those
who reject Faith.”
[Al-Qur’an 2:23-24]

The challenge of the Qur’an, is to produce a single Surah (chapter) like the Surahs it contains. The same challenge is repeated in the Qur’an several times.

The challenge to produce a Surah, which, in beauty, eloquence, depth and meaning is at least somewhat
similar to a Qur’anic Surah remains unmet to this day.
A modern rational man, however, would never accept a religious scripture which says, in the best possible poetic language, that the world is flat. This is because
we live in an age, where human reason, logic and science
are given primacy. Not many would accept the Qur’an’s extraordinarily beautiful language, as proof of its Divine origin. Any scripture claiming to be a divine revelation must also be acceptable on the strength of its own reason and logic.

According to the famous physicist and Nobel Prize winner, Albert Einstein, “Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.”

Let us therefore study the Qur’an, and analyze whether the Qur’an and
Modern Science are compatible or incompatible?

The Qur’an is not a book of Science but a book of
‘Signs’, i.e. Aayaats. There are more than six thousand
‘Signs’ in the Qur’an of which more than a thousand
deal with hard core Science.
We all know that many a times Science takes a ‘U-turn’.
In this book I have considered only established scientific
facts and not hypotheses and theories based on mere
assumptions and not backed by proof.

2. ASTRONOMY
CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE:
‘THE BIG BANG’
The creation of the universe is explained by
astrophysicists as a widely accepted phenomenon,
popularly known as ‘The Big Bang’. It is supported
by observational and experimental data gathered by
astronomers and astrophysicists for decades.
According to ‘The Big Bang’, the whole universe was
initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there
was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which
resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then
divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon,
etc. The origin of the universe was unique and the
probability of it happening by ‘chance’ is nil.
The Qur’an contains the following verse regarding
the origin of the universe:
“Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one
unit of Creation), before
We clove them asunder?”
[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]
The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse
and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book,
which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400
years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE
CREATION OF GALAXIES
Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the
universe were formed, celestial matter was
initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short,
huge gaseous matter or clouds were present
before the formation of the galaxies. To describe
initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more
appropriate than gas. The following Qur’anic verse
refers to this state of the universe by the word
dukhaan which means smoke.
“Moreover, He Comprehended
in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth:
‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’
They said: ‘We do come (together),
in willing obedience.’”
[Al-Qur’an 41:11]
Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and
was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of
Muhammad (Peace be upon him)1. What then, could
have been the source of this knowledge?

SHAPE OF THE EARTH IS SPHERICAL
In early times, people believed that the earth was
flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out
too far, for fear of falling off the edge! Sir Francis
Drake was the first person who proved that the
earth is spherical when he sailed around it in 1597.
Consider the following Qur’anic verse regarding the
alternation of day and night:
“Seest thou not that Allah
merges Night into Day
and He merges Day into Night?”
[Al-Qur’an 31:29]
Merging here means that the night slowly and
gradually changes to day and vice versa. This
phenomenon can only take place if the earth is
spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have
been a sudden change from night to day and from
day to night.
The following verse also alludes to the spherical
shape of the earth:
“He created the heavens and
the earth in true (proportions):
He makes the Night
overlap the Day,and the Day
overlap the Night.”
[Al-Qur’an 39:5]
The Arabic word used here is Kawwara meaning
‘to overlap’ or ‘to coil’– the way a turban is wound
around the head. The overlapping or coiling of the
day and night can only take place if the earth is
spherical.
The earth is not exactly round like a ball, but
geo-spherical, i.e. it is flattened at the poles. The
following verse contains a description of the earth’s
shape:
“And the earth, moreover,
hath He made egg shaped.”
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]
The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which
means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg
resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth.
Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the
earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an
was revealed was that the earth was flat.

MOONLIGHT IS REFLECTED LIGHT
It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon
emanates its own light. Science now tells us that the light of the moon is reflected light. However
this fact was mentioned in the Qur’an 1,400 years
ago in the following verse:
“Blessed is He Who made
Constellations in the skies,
and placed therein a Lamp
and a Moon giving light.”
[Al-Qur’an 25:61]
The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams.
It is also referred to as siraaj which means a ‘torch’
or as wahhaaj meaning ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya
which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions
are appropriate to the sun, since it generates
intense heat and light by its internal combustion.
The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it
is described in the Qur’an as muneer which is a
body that gives noor i.e. reflected light. Again, the
Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true
nature of the moon which does not give off light by
itself and is an inactive body that reflects the light
of the sun. Not once in the Qur’an, is the moon
mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya nor the sun as
noor or muneer. This implies that the Qur’an
recognizes the difference between the nature of
sunlight and moonlight.
The following verses relate to the nature of light
from the sun and the moon: “It is He who made the sun
to be a shining glory
and the moon to be a light
(of beauty).”
[Al-Qur’an 10:5]
“See ye not
how Allah has created
the seven heavens
one above another,
“And made the moon
a light in their midst,
and made the sun
as a (Glorious) Lamp?”
[Al-Qur’an 71:15-16]
The Glorious Qur'an and modern science, are thus
in perfect agreement about the differences in the
nature of sunlight and moonlight.

Silly Allah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Silly Allah said...

Hey Haid,

Yes, it's been a long time since I've posted. I've been pretty busy in the real world - you know how that can be.

And yes, this guy is so caught up in his own delusion that he doesn't realize I don't believe in any gods - Christian or Muslim.

So to Sheraz - to point out mistakes, I was just going to send you to the link on Allah's inability to do simple math for inheritance or to this one where Allah (really Mohamed) shows ,his dumb ignorance of Jewish culture. Instead, though, you decided to expose even more mistakes, LOL.

So let's go through this lunacy...

First off you quote Einstein, but incorrectly. Einstein's view of the word "religion" is very different from yours. For example, if you continue your quote, you would fine him saying, that religion "can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot." In fact, this is the opposite of what you tried to do in your post. You tried to bring religion into a place where science already has shown it to be useless. To continue my demonstration of your ignorance and for you to really and truly understand Einstein's view, let's quote him one more time: "neither the rule of human nor Divine Will exists as an independent cause of natural events...My position concerning God is that of an agnostic."

Oh, and why quote Einstein the agnostic of Jewish ancestry? Shouldn't you follow Mohamed's sick guidelines and be killing Jews instead?:
“The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time [of judgment] will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews and kill them; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!” (Sahih Muslim book 41, no. 6985);

Then, what I think is funny, is you claim that the Quran maps to the Big Bang with phrases like this one:
“Moreover, He Comprehended
in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth:
‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’
They said: ‘We do come (together),
in willing obedience.’”

Are you kidding me? There is so much wrong here, I don't know where to start. For one...the sky and earth as we know it come about 9-10 billion years after the big bang, without "smoke" mind you...this is simply some jibberish that an ignorant desert thief thought 1400 years ago and, to anybody with even a high school science background, has no relation to the Big Bang.

Second, if you want to relate your god to the evolution of the universe, starting with the Big Bang and going all the way through the evolution of earth and life...you've got no room for god. Is that what you're saying, you're an atheist who believes in Allah?!?

OK, let's continue...then you bring up to points that simply work against you. Simply put, the earth is not in the shape of an egg. Second, the moon has reflected light, so how could Allah " made the moon a light in their midst”?

Hey, if we're talking about Allah's silly astronomy/geology, why don't we focus on the Quran's other mistakes? Let's start with these quotes:
"And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit. S. 21:33

It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law). S. 36:40

By the sun and his brightness, And the moon when she followeth him ... S. 91:1-2

And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she returns like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit. S. 36:39-40

Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any God beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not! S. 27:61"

1. The Quran implies that the moon and sun orbit the earth while the moon is stationary. Wrong
2. The second Quran quote also does not allow for solar eclipses where the night comes in the middle of the day. Wrong
3. WTF is the mansion talk about? LOL oh that silly Allah
4. The earth is a fixed abode? Wow, tell that to the dinosaurs who lived on very different looking continents. Any geologist will tell you that it is not fixed with "firm hills." Wrong again Allah.

Check out this quote:
"Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allâh) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness." S. 18:86

5. The Quran says that the sun comes to its resting place...a muddy spring of water. Wrong

There are more errors, but let me end with one of my favorites:

"He Who created the seven heavens, one above the other ... And We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps ... S. 67:3, 5

And He completed them seven heavens in two days and inspired in each heaven its command; and We adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and rendered it guarded ... S. 41:12

We have indeed adorned the lower heaven with the beauty of the stars. S. 37:6 "

The 7 heavens, LOL, you mean: Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn? He's just repeating Greco-Roman stuff, which is true about most of the "science" in the Quran. And "lamps" on the lower heaven...so this "lower" heaven includes galaxies that are farther away than the other heavens? Oh, and they are not "adorned" with lamps...the galaxy formation and star formation occurred as part of the Big Bang theory that you claim to know.

I'm laughing too hard so I'll stop here.

Sheraz Alvi said...

Pity on your stupidity first and then on your lack of knowledge and then on your insight about science and not to mention your behaviour.

Bro we are trying to have a dialogue here and the first rule of that is to respect the other person even if you think you are right. And if you cant do that it means you end the argument there and then as you are ignorant enough to go back and set your self right first.

Ok now coming back to your weak response:

BigBang how did it happen????? Have you read enough. It happened in a highly charged mass of gas which was filled with energy and in millions of years the result was formation of earth and the universe. Quran says the same when they were smoke or cloud where is the conflict. Gas it was charged with very high energy.

Then you say relating my God after the BigBang. Bro in Quran God also says We created everything with what We created with our own hands. AAaa hellooo wake up created with own hands no theory or BigBang research has been able to showcase where this high energy filled cloud came from and Quran is answering it 1400 years back. But you instead of thinking just for the sake of argument and researching on the fact just burst with emotional reply.Ok moving on...

36:38 And [they have a sign in] the sun: it runs in an orbit of its own [19] [and] that is laid down by the will of the Almighty, the All-Knowing;

1400 years back and a book talking about Sun moving in its own orbit and you call it foolish ok lets see at your claim.

And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit. S. 21:33

There is no conflict as they do move in an orbit we now know that and they float hmmm how come an uneducated man in a desert of Arabia know all this... ok lets move on

It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law). S. 36:40

Again a 1400 year old book talking about sun and moon SWIMMING in orbit is that wrong my friend? and God is also telling you that their path is not such that they cross hence cant reach each other. Perfectly right...

Ok lets move one then:
And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she returns like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit. S. 36:39-40

Yes there are stages of moon and it becomes like an old palm leaf in the last dates of the moon and again sun cannot come in the orbit of moon and nor moon can outstrip from its orbit what is wrong there??? And then again a 1400 year old book telling its reader that sun and moon are revolving in their own axis and also in an orbit as if floating at the time when there was no such concept or science.

27:61 Nay - who is it that has made the earth a fitting abode [55] [for living things], and has caused running waters [to flow] in its midst, and has set upon it
mountains firm, and has placed a barrier between the two great bodies of water? [56] Could there be any divine power besides God? Nay, most of those [who think so] do not know [what they are saying]!

Hehehehe i must laugh here so you think a fixed abode means that earth is fixed in its orbit hehehehe what does ABODE means??? lol Abode means A dwelling place; a home.

So what is wrong with that Allah has surely made the earth a dwelling place for us and home for us. And yes when two types of rivers or seas meet their water does not mix with each other and there is always a barrier and the salty remain salty and sweet water remain sweet. Go and see any where or see National Geographic or ask your Science Teacher.

1. The Quran implies that the moon and sun orbit the earth while the moon is stationary. Wrong
Answer: AAA where exactly did the Quran said that can you QUOTE PLEASE hehehe

2. Night comes in middle of day hmm let me see what is night when the earth moves away from the light of the sun and when the trees start release CO2 unlike the day when they realese Oxygen I dont think no one can call an eclipse night or goes to bed when there is an eclipse hehehe you are making me laugh seriously now. Ok lets move further:

Earth is a fixed abode again a fixed dwelling place. If you live in a house and your father plans to rebuilt it from the ground up you will still be living on the same address and it will still be your home.

Geologists tell us that the radius of the Earth is about 6,035 km and the crust on which we live is
very thin, ranging between 2 to 35 km. Since the crust is thin, it has a high possibility of shaking.
Mountains act like stakes or tent pegs that hold the earth’s crust and give it stability. The Qur’an
contains exactly such a description:
“Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, and the mountains as pegs?”
[Al-Qur’an 78:6-7]

“And We have set on the earth
mountains standing firm,
lest it should shake with them.”
[Al-Qur’an 21:31]

Again a 1400 year book telling that the mountains are not just high mountains but they are pegs to save the earth from shaking though all volcanic activity seems to be from a mountain and people 1400 years back would have laughed the same way you did with their ignorance.

Here is another one please quote the correct translation at least:

18:86 [And he marched westwards] till, when he came to the setting of the sun, [84] it appeared to him that it was setting in a dark, turbid sea; [85] and nearby he found a people [given to every kind of wrongdoing]. We said: "O thou Two-Horned One! Thou mayest either cause [them] to suffer or treat them with kindness!" [86]

When we see the sun-set from a beach what does it feel as if the sun is setting in the dark sea hmmm so if I walk from any place and walk till its sunset and see the sun setting in the sea what would i say????? hohohohoho you must be really dumb man to understand this.

Ok moving on here is complete translation of the section you quoted:

67:1 Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Sovereignty, and He is Able to do all things.
67:2 Who hath created life and death that He may try you, which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, Forgiving,
67:3 Who hath created seven heavens in harmony. Thou (Muhammad) canst see no fault in the Beneficent One's creation; then look again: Canst thou see any rifts?
67:4 Then look again and yet again, thy sight will return unto thee weakened and made dim.
67:5 And verily We have beatified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
67:6 For those who reject their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (such),
Destination.

Well 7 skies it means Quran is talking about something we dont yet know as it talks about God creating 7 skies and we are on the last one which is decorated by stars. Here you will see another sign that the stars are burning though they dont look like sun to a normal eye but the 1400 year old book is telling us that they are and how they fall. Here no one is talking about galaxies or planets Quran clearly talks about sun moon and planet in a different tone this is bigger then this consider this space which seems endless like a ball of vaccum and you, this earth and all galaxies are in it and then there is another one over it and then another till 7. Till now all we know is that the space has black holes which lead somewhere and have so much attraction that the light is even not able to come out of it. But we dont know where does the space ends and why everything is floating in it as if nothing has a single unit of weight.

Adorned with lamps: if you create anything lets say a website you will say I decorated it with beautiful graphics but I say come on man it was the computer software which did millions of calculations and that resulted in that creation. For you what ever the process your creation will be beautiful and you will say you decorated it or made it beautiful. Remember when we say God did it...it does not mean ohh so there is no process and its magic and that Whatever HE does happens automatically. NO every thing God has created HE has created through a process so that you can understand and believe as HE has kept signs for us to see. And God is not Muslim God, Jew God or Christian God .... DO WE OWN GOD NOOO HE owns us and when we say God or Allah it means the Creator of everything and everyone no matter we call Him Allah, God, Jehova or what ever. When we say THE ONE WHO CREATED us then we mean the ALMIGHTY GOD.

If you really want to study Quran to know the truth you can search Quran with any word:

http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

And God says if they think they are right and there is no God then ask them to call Death on themselves or ask for death nay they wont be able to do this as they know where they stand.

Wake up my friend truth stands clear from falsehood. And remember if you know a process it does not mean that there isn't a creator of that process, resulting in a creation. Read this 3 times to understand. Such perfection around us cannot be there without a supreme creator. Think....

Silly Allah said...

Thank you for more laughs my friend. A whole lot of insults and a lot of emotion - I must've touched a nerve.

I was looking forward to a great response from you so that we could really debate, but you disappointed me so quickly (after you finished with your insults). Here's what you said:
"BigBang how did it happen????? Have you read enough. It happened in a highly charged mass of gas which was filled with energy and in millions of years the result was formation of earth and the universe. Quran says the same when they were smoke or cloud where is the conflict. Gas it was charged with very high energy."

It just so happened that I am educated on the topic, and what you just wrote is wrong. It did not start as a "highly charged mass of energy" and it was not a "gas" - so cloud or smoke makes no sense and is just plain wrong. Read up on the Inflationary Big Bang. The big bang started as an tiny, infinitesimal quantum fluctuation and was much, much smaller in mass than even an atom. Within 10^-35 seconds, it grew to a hold all the mass in the current universe, but was still less than a meter in size...so it was EXTREMELY dense. Again, not a cloud or smoke.

Also, it didn't take "millions of years" - it took billions...about 13.7 billion years according to most experiments. Moreover, you missed a key point in your emotional outburst, the Earth didn't even exist for another 9 or so billion years (it's only 4.5 billion years old) so Mohamed (or his imaginary friend allah) made another mistake here:
"“Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one
unit of Creation), before
We clove them asunder?”"

This last quote simply contradicts reality because the Earth wasn't around. Do you understand now?

It didn't go unnoticed that you avoided Einstein this time around. Why don't you admit that you just misquoted and were wrong? Either way, the readers are smart enough to see your obfuscation. You've lost credibility in their eyes.

Also, let me educate you on geology. The earth is not a fixed abode with two seas. The continents move and so do the mountains...they have for millions of years and continue to do so today. They are not fixed like ignorant desert people thought 1400 years ago.

Oh, and the Earth orbits the sun not the other way around. The Earth does not sit still. Night and day comes because the Earth rotates. I learned this in elementary school. So it's wrong to reference the sun swimming in its orbit around the Earth. And it's wrong to equate night and day with orbits...it has nothing to do with orbits, it has to do with the Earth rotating about it's axis.

It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law). S. 36:40

By the sun and his brightness, And the moon when she followeth him ... S. 91:1-2

And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she returns like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit. S. 36:39-40"

Finally, if the Night can never outstrip the day - how come you can have a solar eclipse in the middle of the day? The moon appears in the sky in the middle of the day and even blocks out the Sun, creating darkness.

Haid Dasalami said...

Unreal. What a tool. Let me take a crack at him:

Dear Abdul,

No one cares. If we were intent on exposing stupid religions, we'd have blogs about Scientology, Raelianism, or the Great Thumb God tribal religions.

It isn't possible to prove the veracity of scripture. Not yours, not mine. We take these on faith. Your silly "proofs" are evidence that you dont even comprehend the notion of proof, so further polemics are useless.

You mention the lack of respect you were shown. Typical Islamic apologist: arrogantly demanding respect even as he calls us ignorant. Ignorant of what? Why, of course, ignorant of his vile and ridiculous theological canons. You come here to prove a point on which no one has solicited your input--you try, that is, to convert us--and then you claim we've disrespected you. You're nuttier than Chinese chicken salad.

Anyway, you're also illiterate. You couldn't fashion a valid verbal argument if by chance you stumbled onto one.

And, trust me, I'm a professional--you haven't.

Sheraz Alvi said...

Please read my answer carefully then answer you are repeating things that you said first.

BigBang: The Big Bang is the cosmological model of the universe that is best supported by all lines of scientific evidence and observation. As used by scientists, the term Big Bang generally refers to the idea that the universe has expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past, and continues to expand to this day.

Remember its a THEORY.

No matter how much time it took it resulted in creation of Earth and Solar systems. You said he big bang started as an tiny, infinitesimal quantum fluctuation and was much, much smaller in mass than even an atom.

So what was it Quran says they were together SIZE IS NOT MENTIONED Earth was created billions of years later but what caused the earth to be created the same thing so everything that the universe is now was togather in one BODY and

You talk of Atom here is what Quran was saying 1400 years back:

Allah knows everything above and below the earth and heavens even things bigger or smaller then a smallest particle (Atom)

Science came to know at the start of 19 century that atom is not the smallest particle and there are smaller things in it. SIGN FOR YOU AGAIN bro.

Moving on the correct translation:
91:1 CONSIDER the sun and its radiant brightness,
91:2 and the moon as it reflects the sun!
91:3 Consider the day as it reveals the world
91:4 and the night as it veils it darkly!
91:5 Consider the sky and its wondrous make,
91:6 and the earth and all its expanse!
91:7 Consider the human self, [4] and how it is formed in accordance with what it is meant to be,
91:8 and how it is imbued with moral failings as well as with consciousness of God!
91:9 To a happy state shall indeed attain he who causes this [self] to grow in purity,
91:10 and truly lost is he who buries it [in darkness].

Quoting wrongly from Quran is not going to help as you know unlike any religious book the Quran has only one script all over the world.

Quran is clearly saying about moon reflecting the light of sun at a time when there was no knowledge about that.

Earth Sun and moon also rotate in their own orbit that is how on earth you have day and night but it is also revolving around the sun.

Again FIXED ABODE means a place that has been fixed for you to be your home. See my example in my previous message and please read to answer with proper facts.

Is solar eclipse a night??? do you go to sleep when there is an eclipse do the plant start omitting CO2 when there is an eclipse NOOOO
No one calls an eclips night and Quran is talking about orbital movement and how harmonised they are that they dont interchange paths and everything is in balance.

You are again repeating things as your last message without reading the reply. You can pretend to not understand the truth but in your heart you have started to know now.

If you have some truth bring any other book which has signs like this.

Silly Allah said...

Oh Sheraz...you continually entertain me :)

You say I repeat things. I repeat some things because you don't understand the first time (the Quran mistake mentioning Earth at the wrong time period), I repeat other things because you try to run away from your mistake (such as Einstein's quotes), and I also present new material (such as the night and day coming from the Earth's rotation not the sun's orbit as the Quran states).

In this last post, you did what you claimed I did - you mostly repeated yourself. You refused to acknowledge many mistakes made by you and by Muhammad (or his silly friend Allah). The reader can see through your fallacy-ridden tactics as Haid did. In fact, you attempted to add in one new thing - but unfortunately it was dishonest (a little taqqiya perhaps?).

You wanted to claim that the Quran states the moon shows reflected light.

First, let's start with a real fact - that the Greeks already knew the moon showed reflected light (Anaxagoras of Clazomenae (480-430 B.C.) knew this: http://www.ics.forth.gr/~vsiris/ancient_greeks/presocratics.html ). So it would be quite sad if Muhammad got it wrong 1000 years later.

Second, the Quran clearly states (as we've said before) that Allah "made the moon a light" - which is wrong.

Third, and to your big new point of the last post, you translated the Arabic in contradiction to the other, most common translations. Here's what they say:

091.001
YUSUFALI: By the Sun and his (glorious) splendour;
PICKTHAL: By the sun and his brightness,
SHAKIR: I swear by the sun and its brilliance,

091.002
YUSUFALI: By the Moon as she follows him;
PICKTHAL: And the moon when she followeth him,
SHAKIR: And the moon when it follows the sun,

See, Allah thought the moon followed the sun, not reflected its light. Muhammad thought that the sun and moon orbited around the Earth, creating night and day. He had absolutely no idea that night and day was caused by the Earth's rotation on it's axis. Wrong again silly allah :)

When you get a chance, I'd love to hear your rebuttal about misquoting Einstein, the Hadith encouraging Muslims to kill Jews, Allah's misunderstanding of the creation of the universe coming from "smoke" or "cloud," Allah's misunderstanding that the Earth appeared billions of years after "the heavens" so your Big Bang apologist nonsense is just that, how the "lower heaven" is adorned with lamps when many viewable stars are much farther away than the Sun and planets or anything else for that matter, Allah's misunderstanding that the hills are firm in a fixed abode when continental drift shows this to be false,...I know there's more, but I'll stop there.

Please take some of your own advice and read the replies, research the Inflationary Big Bang, basic astronomy, basic geology, Earth's rotation and affect on night/day, standard translations,...you've been spouting apologist nonsense for so long, you're beginning to believe it, LOL. In the 21st century, we have something better than 1400 mythology and superstition...it's called science :)

Silly Allah said...

Sheraz, you wrote a wonderful reply, which I'd love to publish and thereby expose Muslim dishonesty at its finest. However, you included html links to external sites rather than just give readers the internet address. I don't allow external links - please resubmit your post without the html links and I will approve.