Thursday, March 27, 2008

Fitna : Geert Wilders' film


Click and watch.

So the movie is finally out. Finally...after the Dutch parliament requested that Dutch MP Geert Wilders not show it, after the EU went to censor it, and after Network Solutions prevented even an announcement that the film was coming.

Watch it. In its entirety. You'll have to do it on the Internet because the MSM will try to hide this film, even though it's only 15 minutes. You'll join the 1 million viewers who saw it in only the first 30 minutes of its release!

Then watch for the seething violence that will follow.

Update:
Apparently, Sarkozy has “officially declared that France would provide every necessary support to aid the Netherlands in the suppression of any Muslim violence” that may result from the release of Dutch MP Geert Wilders’ controversial documentary film called “Fitna.”

Further update:
After threats of violence, LiveLeak was forced to take down the film. The great thing is that through their death threats, Muslims have demonstrated exactly what Geert Wilders is trying to prove. Islam is clearly a violent, sick religion whose followers have lost their ability to reason.

The good news is that the Youtube link is still working, and I've added that at the top of the page. Watch the LiveLeak version underneath to hear the official statement from the company.

Another update:
LiveLeak decided not to cower in the face of violent Islam. The video is back up!

13 comments:

ahmed said...

I think this is the only way how you islamophobics can get your frustration out against the greatest religion and against the greatest men in the history of mankind. Be sure that such movies and other such jackass kind of attempts to defame islam and muslims will only fall back on you and Islam will become even more stronger.

Go on give it your best shot it may be your last attempt. We care less because there will always be misguided and frustrated bunch of idiots in this world who think that speaking foul is so great. Speaking a bunch of lies against anybody is easy and this does not make you either more righteous or more brave, rather it makes you more inhumane, insensitive and more frustrated individual. Please I beg you stop this silly nonsense, let us muslims follow our religion peacefully do not ignite any moire hatred in this already troubled world. Do not increase the inter faith gap. Love all mankind as we all are the creations of one and only. Be sensible and open minded like us rather then naive like your forefathers of dark ages.

Silly Allah said...

Fallacies, fallacies, fallacies. First you assert that Islam is the greatest religion. Then you assert something about the greatest men - you mean the sick Muslims cutting off heads in the film? Then you call criticism "jackass kind of attempts," and critics "idiots."

You know what would be great? If we saw Muslims seething about the more than 10,000 terrorist acts since 9/11 or about a single one. Imagine if Iran, Pakistan, etc. were screaming about Muslim violence instead of a film about Muslim violence. No, instead, all we get is silence. A 15 minute film based on fact, however...well, that has guys like you in uproar.

Go through the rest of this site, you will find Quran mistake after mistake. You will learn about Muhammad's pedophilia and his violent sexism. Moreover, you will learn about Islam's need for world domination coupled with its violent instructions to fulfill the need.

Sousou said...

I have to agree with silly allah on the fact that many Muslims' reactions , be it about 9/11 or caricatures/films criticizing them, are completely innapropriate and just end up making them look stupid.

I noticed however that when I ask my Muslim friend (I'm an atheist but I'm Arab too so this religion is part of me no matter what) about all the things you anti-Islam people are denouncing (Mohammed's pedophilia, the violence of the book...), they tell me that it is not true and that "Islam is a religion of peace".

I am under the impression that true Muslims, those who felt terrible for 9/11 and do not agree at all with Bin Laden, "select" the parts of the Qu'ran that they want to believe in, those that speak about peace and help them get through life.

So yeah, you may want to speak out about the Qu'ran and Muslims' "dangers" but do it properly and never forget that not everyone is a dangerous terrorist that wants to kill whoever criticizing Islam. If the media tried to actually acknowledge these people, fundamentalist Muslims would have to just shut the hell up.

Silly Allah said...

Interesting comments Sousou except you lost me on "the things you anti-Islam people are denouncing (Mohammed's pedophilia, the violence of the book...), they tell me that it is not true and that "Islam is a religion of peace"."
The reason you lost me is that Mohammed was a pedophile - this is a fact, and I don't understand how this has anything to do with peace. Additionally, Islam means submission not peace and Islam clearly promotes terror in a way that the other Abrahamic religions do not. I wish it weren't so...I really do. As an atheist, I felt uncomfortable singling out Islam until the facts were impossible to ignore. There's a reason why there have been 11044 Muslim terror attacks since 9/11 and 185 in April 2008 alone - see http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/.

I also wish I could agree with your impression that "true Muslims" do not agree with Bin Laden. Unfortunately, it is "true Muslims" that do because Mohammed was quite clear about the concept of spreading Islam - "kill or be killed" for Allah. They understand that they can "beat their wives," they understand that Jews are "apes and pigs," they understand that Christians and Jews should "pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" and they understand that atheists and homosexuals have no rights whatsoever. If they don't have those understandings, then they are ignorant or think Mohammed lied about his revelations from Allah. Would they be true Muslims then? Take the most holy location in the world for Muslims - Saudi Arabia - and try to be an open atheist, Christian, homosexual or Jew (if you're courageous!)...it ain't pretty.

Where I do agree is that many of the Muslims with only a superficial understanding of Islam (and therefore not "true Muslims") may disagree with 9/11. The more 'radical' Muslims are in fact the more true and knowledgeable Muslims. Statistically speaking, (http://media.gallup.com/WorldPoll/PDF/MWSRRadical022207.pdf), the radicals are more educated, more hopeful, and more wealthy. Thus, these terrorists are clearly not carrying out to improve their welfare, but to improve their afterlife with Allah by demonstrating that they are true Muslims.

While I agree that most Muslims fall into this superficial category of those that don't "submit" enough to become violent, I wish the percentage were higher. The same research above showed that 36% of Muslims thought that 9/11 was in some way justified (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/066chpzg.asp?pg=2). I'll let you multiply that by 1.3 billion.

Sousou said...

Well, it might help that my country is not hell-bent on Islam like most countries in the Middle East. Muslims here live almost like Western folks, which angers a lot of fundamentalists and explains the few terrorist attacks we faced.

People here tend to ignore some of the content of the Qu'ran and simply declare it as not true and not valid anymore, especially for things like Aisha's abuse or the violence supported by the book.
They view it as something that helps them and teaches them peace and thorough knowledge of the book is not necessary to them: my friends almost never pray or go to the mosque,

I'm aware however that most Muslims are very different from the Muslims I know, and this explains why you decided to denonce their religion. I just wish you would stop using the good ol' stereotypes that all Muslims hate Jews and Christians, that they agree with Bin Laden,... to make your point. Not everyone is like that, just like not all Americans are stupid obese pro-war people.

Silly Allah said...

In some sense you've made my point."My friends almost never pray or go to the mosque" - I would hardly call them adherents of Islam. In fact, since the Quran is considered the literal word of Allah, the following comment implies that they are far from "true Muslims": "People here tend to ignore some of the content of the Qu'ran and simply declare it as not true."

The issue is with Islam, Sharia and any Muslim that wants me to convert, die or pay Jizya. Maybe all your friends were not in the 36% of Muslims that felt 9/11 justified (the survey was in 40 countries)? I don't know. I know the history of how Islam spread, and I am not comforted. I have traveled quite a bit, and have seen first hand the difficulty of Muslims from even dropping their religion because of things Mohammed said 1400 years ago. As with all religions, Islam starts with a delusion, but takes it to a unique violent, misogynistic, and racist level. The core books promote violence and terror, and the peaceful Meccan verses that your friends like so much have been abrogated (replaced) by the later, violent, Medina verses as any imam will tell you.

What I didn't like about your last post was "just like not all Americans are stupid obese pro-war people" because I don't subscribe to the "we're all the same" argument. That is just shallow, and you're missing the point. Of course, not all Muslims hate Jews, but I am willing to bet it's the majority who have a real issue here. Somehow not even the most liberal Arab country where you live (Lebanon? Jordan?) is safe enough for Jews to be open about their religion in all locations. Moreover, the point is that Islam indoctrinates the followers towards antisemitism:

Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6985: Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: “The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.”

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”

And those Hadith are just a subset. Mohammed himself murdered the men of an entire Jewish community and enslaved the women and children. Those who don't subscribe to the practice of antisemitism are not "true Muslims."

Sousou said...

It seems to me that "true Muslims" are those who apply only the instructions from the Qu'ran that make some sense in this century, not those who follow them blindly.

Living by every prescription of your religion doesn't make you a better Muslim than the rest, it just means you chose a stricter interpretation of the Qu'ran. My friends still think of themselves as real Muslims and truly believe in God and Muhammed no matter how non-religious they may look.

I would also say that the hatred toward Jews/homosexuals/... is a problem that Arabs rather than Muslims have, because of Israel and such.

What is not correct about your conception of Islam is that you assume everyone follows the Qu'ran instructions to the letter. They actually grew up abiding by the most important Islamic instructions (the 5 pillars) and interpret what the Qu'ran says themselves rather than following scholars' interpretation.

FYI, I live in Morocco. Secondly, I do not agree with this idea of "denoncing the fallacies of [insert religion here]". It's stupid to believe in something you can't even see but making a blog "denoncing the fallacies of Islam" isn't going to help. You're just telling people waht they want to hear: Muslims are dangerous terrorists who cut off heads and kill people who criticize them. I'm sorry but the Muslims I know are not like that.

Silly Allah said...

You're overstating things, and thereby missing the point. I don't say that Muslims must have a literal view of the Quran to be "true Muslims," the religion itself says so. I did say that many Muslims have a superficial understanding of Islam, however, the culture is already ingrained because the religion's founder was a vicious, murdering, Jew-hating, misogynistic pedophile. And for those that go and look up verses at all ("interpret what the Qu'ran says themselves rather than following scholars' interpretation.") - well, it's very difficult to get away from all the horror, no matter how hard you try.


A perfect example of the ingrained culture is the treatment of Jews and Christians. You made this incorrect statement:
"I would also say that the hatred toward Jews/homosexuals/... is a problem that Arabs rather than Muslims have, because of Israel and such."
The truth makes my point again. If your statement were true, then Muslim countries as far away from Arabia as Malaysia would not be blaming Jews for their economic problems, political problems, etc. - should I quote Mahathir? Should I quote the Malaysians who told me that the Jews did 9/11? (not the minority btw) What about Indonesia and Christians: http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/020910.php
I think you made this mistake because you assumed that I have not lived in Muslim countries: "It's stupid to believe in something you can't even see" - but I have seen. I have lived across Europe, MidEast, Asia and visited Africa. While I have not been to Morocco (it's on my list), I know that (at least as late as a 2003 report) Morocco has not had a pretty history wrt Jews well before Israel's birth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands#Morocco). Also, recent problems protecting the few Jews that remain after the exodus of 1947: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/956739.html . Although Morocco may be the best Muslim country in the world for other religions, it doesn't look lightly on proselytizing. Maybe the laws below aren't implemented as strongly as they are elsewhere in the Muslim world. If they are, I wouldn't attempt to shake anyone's faith away from Islam to atheism:

The [Moroccan] Constitution provides that Islam is the official religion, and designates the King as "Commander of the Faithful" with the responsibility of ensuring "respect for Islam." The Constitution also provides for freedom of religion; however, the Government places certain restrictions on Christian religious materials and proselytizing, and several small religious minorities are tolerated with varying degrees of official restrictions. . . .

Any attempt to induce a Muslim to convert is illegal. According to Article 220 of the Penal Code, any attempt to stop one or more persons from the exercise of their religious beliefs, or attendance at religious services, is unlawful and may be punished by 3 to 6 months' imprisonment and a fine of $10 to $50 (115 to 575 dirhams). The Article applies the same penalty to "anyone who employs incitements in order to shake the faith of a Muslim or to convert him to another religion." Foreign missionaries either limit their proselytizing to non-Muslims or conduct their work quietly. The Government cited the prohibition on conversion in the Penal Code in most cases in which courts expelled foreign missionaries. . . .

Citizens who convert to Christianity and other religions generally face social ostracism, and a small number of persons have faced short periods of questioning or detention by the authorities. Voluntary conversion is not a crime under the Criminal or Civil Codes; however, until 4 years ago, the authorities had jailed some converts on the basis of references to Islamic law. Christian citizens sometimes still are called in for questioning by the authorities. . . .

The Government permits the display and sale of Bibles in French, English, and Spanish, but confiscates Arabic-language Bibles and refuses licenses for their importation and sale, despite the absence of any law banning such books. Nevertheless Arabic Bibles have been sold in local bookstores.

Sousou said...

I guess my living in a microcosm such as Morocco and only spending time with people from upper-working class families made me biased. But I still believe Muslims who choose to ignore the recommendations of the Qu'ran to hate Jews/... are true Muslims, the kind of people I want to be with.

And don't worry, I do know the religious laws in my own country. But there still are a number of Christian Moroccan and yes they hide, but it's not like people really care about them. Only prozelitism is forbidden because we're all supposed to be Muslims but there are several churches and synagogues ; I even visited one once since we like to promote interreligious dialogue.

I am aware however that most Muslims are far from being that tolerant, my father being a great example of that, but still, I like to only think of Muslims as those articulate and smart people I'm used to living with. I will need to come to terms with reality as some point but for the time being...

I'd also like to say that all religions promote violence and such. The Bible talks about crusades and is the most incest-filled thing I've ever read. I don't know much about the Torah tough but I don't think it is as violent as the two other books (although it still uses the Old Testament). Denoncing Islam is not the only thing that needs to be done about religion IMO.

Anyway, I have finals to study for, I'll see you.

Silly Allah said...

Hey Sousou, thanks for stopping by. I've appreciated the dialog, and am now more interested in traveling to Morocco.

It's interesting that your country is among the most open Muslim countries to other religions (if not the most), yet Christians hide (in your own words). It says something about the cultural indoctrination of the religious text, even in a more liberal society.

On your comments about Biblical violence. The Bible and Torah have their own issues, no doubt. However, unfortunately, the Quran takes things to another level in its violent prescriptions of hate for non-believers (see link).

Also, a few key differences help explain why modern followers of Islam still use the text to justify their violence whereas modern Christians and Jews do not. It also explains the propensity for terror amongst followers of Islam:

1. Muslims consider the Quran to be the word of Allah, NOT the inspired word of Allah. Christians and Jews, in general, view their holy books as inspired. Thus the directions for violence and terror take on real meaning for Muslims.

2. The Quran's words are considered timeless and universal, regardless of the context from which they came.

3. Islam is considered more than just a religion. It is considered a prescriptive guide to life, law, politics, warfare,...many have called Islam a "political religion" or even a socio-political system with religion as just an element.

Notwithstanding these differences, I agree with your sentiment that all religions based on delusions are harmful to society. I started writing this blog after debating with Christians, Muslims and Jews. First, I found the discussions with Muslims to be extremely different in that Muslims often obfuscate and destroy real discussion (the Quran and Hadith actually tell Muslims not to debate for fear of losing faith). Second, between travels, debates, news and eventually reading the Quran and Hadith, I found Islam to be an extremely dangerous religion, and would more correctly refer to it as a cult (directives for killing apostates, killing unbelievers, Jihad,...).

Anyway, I agree with your hope for Muslims to ignore the Jew-hating, wife-beating, etc. recommendations in the Quran and Hadith. Unfortunately, history and recent events have not given me as much faith in that hope.

Good luck on your finals!

Sousou said...

Heh, I couldn't possibly leave this conversation unfinished, right?

Anyway, I do understand your point of view since you've been to all these quite religious countries. The more I learn about them, the more I realise just how liberal and free Morocco is-- the main reason we got attacked by Al-Quaeda just like you guys in America and Europe. Clearly, fundamentalists don't consider the balance between Western and Islamic influence as an attitude conform to the Quran's instructions.

And yes, I think you'll find Morocco very interesting since unlike other Muslim countries we were subject to a French protectorat for almost 50 years, making us integrate several elements of the Western culture. Thus, we are not considered "true" Muslims by the Middle East, especially since we do not have the same international status as these countries: we accept Jews and they still have the King's protection since WW2, the United States collaborate with us, my people disobey most of the Quran's prescriptions... And what's really great is that Moroccan love this cohabitation between two different cultures and are proud of their upbringing and dream of living in Europe/the USA.

Though I cannot say I'm know my country's culture/people prefectly since I'm half-French and never really lived in a typical Moroccan environment. Still, I like the culture we have here and I know that a lot of Moroccans do not want to live the way the Middle East does.

Christian said...

Islam is a cult of terror in the name of religion. How can koran be a word of God which has all killing without no reason. Do muslims don't believe in the days of Judgement. If they do believe, why do they want to KILL PEOPLE OF ALL OTHER FAITH ????

This clearly proves that Islam has no faith in God. Thier allah is different from the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

The best way to eliminate the islamic cult is to built Church in Saudia Arabia and let the word of God is proclaimed from Saudi Arabia and all the muslims are converted to Christianity.

And let the peace prevail on earth.

Venkatesh said...

All your comments are from the outside, we in India have lived with these muslim lies for a long time now. I welcome the violence that muslims are now resorting to, it is waking up the world to how peaceful their religion is. They could have islamised the world more subtly, like the population figures in this movie shows. Also remember they can have four wives and plenty of children so it is no rocket science that they will crawl all over the world soon. Now all this violence will come to a head some time in our lifetime or our children's and as Naziism and Communism were thrashed so will Islam. So thank them for the violence ye muslim know this, one man protecting his home is far more powerful than 100 jihadi's your judgement day will be in the hands of Jews, Christians, Hindus and Buddhists. The question is when will the west wake up and smell the rats, let us know when you have, we in India are waiting to replicate Gujarat.