Sunday, November 18, 2007
Now, what happened when Muslims discovered the inheritance math mistake in the Quran? They needed to follow Sharia law in order to divide the inheritance, yet they took the Quran as divine with no mistakes. There could only have been two results: mass deconversion from Islam or "fixes" that allowed for peaceful division of the inherited property.
Al-Awl (or Aul)
Well, it turns out, I wasn't the first to discover this mistake. In fact, the 4th Caliph, Ali, saw it in 7th century A.D. His attempted fix, known as Al-Awl (or Aul), is basically a normalization. So, let's look at this example from the last post: A man dies and leaves behind 3 daughters, 2 parents and 2 wives. Let's see how Ali would change things (http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/quran.htm under section 4:11):
"The ‘aul was first legalized by ‘Ali, the fourth Caliph, who, being questioned about the share of a wife, the other heirs being the two parents and two daughters, gave the answer “without premeditation” that the wife’s one-eighth had become one-ninth, for the two parents should take one-third, the two daughters two-thirds, and the wife one-eighth, which make up nine-eighths, and hence ‘Ali decided that each of the heirs should take less than was due,
so that the proportion might remain the same "
Now, keeping in mind that nowhere in the Quran does it say to normalize, let's look at the resultant math:
Quran's literal words give a total of 9/8:
3 daughters: 2/3
2 parents: 1/3
2 wives: 1/8
Using Al-Awl rules to normalize, you get:
3 daughters: 16/27
2 parents: 8/27
2 wives: 1/9
The first set of numbers were multiplied by 8/9 so that the total could equal 100%. That's it folks. A quick fix with no basis in the Quran.
Residues and Remainders
Another idea was to take remainders after each calculation. Let me be more clear by quoting from the same Muslim website above:
"In this case the parents first take their respective shares,
and the residue goes to the children, if there are any, failing which, the share of the
parents is increased. "
So, instead of following the Quran literally, that "Allah makes clear to you," Muslims invented words that didn't exist in the 4:11, 4:12 and 4:176 of the Quran...specifically, "first take" and "residue." There is no mention of order in the Quran's inheritance calculation, nor is there a mention of residue. Just for fun, let's go through the calculation:
2 parents first: 1/3, then daughters? No, actually, those who follow this fix actually calculate the 2 wives first at 1/8 total. Yes, I know that the wives are mentioned in a whole other (later) verse, so it's even sillier for them to get their share first but so be it. OK, so now, we've given away 1/3 + 1/8 = 11/24, leaving a balance of 13/24. Now, the daughters get their 2/3 of 13/24 = 13/36. In summary:
3 daughters: 13/36
2 parents: 1/3
2 wives: 1/8
Now, 13/36 + 1/3 + 1/8 = 59/72 <1 style="font-style: italic;" size="2">"The balance (i.e., 1-59/72 = 13/72) shall be given to the person bequeathed by the deceased; in the absence of such a person, it shall be given to the closest male relative of the deceased; in the absence of such a relative, the balance shall be distributed as per the regulations of the state of residence of the deceased."
I interpret this to mean "we don't know because we just made up the fix anyway." LOL Seriously, there is still a math problem, and, I imagine, some very angry relatives.
Let's revisit this fix. An order was added to the calculation whereby shares were taken of residues rather than the whole. However, this solution also has no basis in the Quran. Nowhere does it say to follow a particular order, especially in reverse of how shares are presented in the Quran (children first, then parents, then wives as opposed to parents and wives then children in the fix).
Islamic Math Mistakes With Fixes
Now, even if we were to accept the fixes, and even if we believed that the justification (of which there is none within the "perfect" Quran). Are we still left with a contradiction? Yes. Simply put, the followers of said fixes are not following the perfect Quran. Muslims who you debate actually know this, and will therefore refuse to give you the final percentages in a debate. If they do, go through this:
"4:11 says "if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance," does it not?"
The answer: yes
"OK, well you're giving those 3 daughters in this example 16/27 or 13/26 (depending on which fix they're using). Doesn't that violate the Quran?"
The answer: uhh...but...uhh...you have to calculate shares after normalizing (or based on residues).
"OK, but the Quran never says to calculate shares after normalizing (or based on residues). In fact, there isn't even a word that is close to normalizing (or residues, nor any mention of order in the calculation). Let's return to 4:11..."
And so the debate will go on ad infinitum. The point stays though - silly Allah can't do math.
In the next post, I will go through some of the other rebuttals and lead into more inheritance mistakes.
Saturday, November 17, 2007
There are a number of verses that tell Muslims how to manage inheritance: 2:180, 2:233, 2:240, 4:12, 4:13, 4:176 and 5:106. However, the verses that go through the detailed mathematics are 4:12, 4:13, and 4:176:
YUSUFALI: Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise.
PICKTHAL: Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half. And to each of his parents a sixth of the inheritance, if he have a son; and if he have no son and his parents are his heirs, then to his mother appertaineth the third; and if he have brethren, then to his mother appertaineth the sixth, after any legacy he may have bequeathed, or debt (hath been paid). Your parents and your children: Ye know not which of them is nearer unto you in usefulness. It is an injunction from Allah. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR: Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half; and as for his parents, each of them shall have the sixth of what he has left if he has a child, but if he has no child and (only) his two parents inherit him, then his mother shall have the third; but if he has brothers, then his mother shall have the sixth after (the payment of) a bequest he may have bequeathed or a debt; your parents and your children, you know not which of them is the nearer to you in usefulness; this is an ordinance from Allah: Surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
YUSUFALI: In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing.
PICKTHAL: And unto you belongeth a half of that which your wives leave, if they have no child; but if they have a child then unto you the fourth of that which they leave, after any legacy they may have bequeathed, or debt (they may have contracted, hath been paid). And unto them belongeth the fourth of that which ye leave if ye have no child, but if ye have a child then the eighth of that which ye leave, after any legacy ye may have bequeathed, or debt (ye may have contracted, hath been paid). And if a man or a woman have a distant heir (having left neither parent nor child), and he (or she) have a brother or a sister (only on the mother's side) then to each of them twain (the brother and the sister) the sixth, and if they be more than two, then they shall be sharers in the third, after any legacy that may have been bequeathed or debt (contracted) not injuring (the heirs by willing away more than a third of the heritage) hath been paid. A commandment from Allah. Allah is Knower, Indulgent.
SHAKIR: And you shall have half of what your wives leave if they have no child, but if they have a child, then you shall have a fourth of what they leave after (payment of) any bequest they may have bequeathed or a debt; and they shall have the fourth of what you leave if you have no child, but if you have a child then they shall have the eighth of what you leave after (payment of) a bequest you may have bequeathed or a debt; and if a man or a woman leaves property to be inherited by neither parents nor offspring, and he (or she) has a brother or a sister, then each of them two shall have the sixth, but if they are more than that, they shall be sharers in the third after (payment of) any bequest that may have been bequeathed or a debt that does not harm (others); this is an ordinance from Allah: and Allah is Knowing, Forbearing.
YUSUFALI: They ask thee for a legal decision. Say: Allah directs (thus) about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs. If it is a man that dies, leaving a sister but no child, she shall have half the inheritance: If (such a deceased was) a woman, who left no child, Her brother takes her inheritance: If there are two sisters, they shall have two-thirds of the inheritance (between them): if there are brothers and sisters, (they share), the male having twice the share of the female. Thus doth Allah make clear to you (His law), lest ye err. And Allah hath knowledge of all things.
PICKTHAL: They ask thee for a pronouncement. Say: Allah hath pronounced for you concerning distant kindred. If a man die childless and he have a sister, hers is half the heritage, and he would have inherited from her had she died childless. And if there be two sisters, then theirs are two-thirds of the heritage, and if they be brethren, men and women, unto the male is the equivalent of the share of two females. Allah expoundeth unto you, so that ye err not. Allah is Knower of all things.
SHAKIR: They ask you for a decision of the law. Say: Allah gives you a decision concerning the person who has neither parents nor offspring; if a man dies (and) he has no son and he has a sister, she shall have half of what he leaves, and he shall be her heir she has no son; but if there be two (sisters), they shall have two-thirds of what he leaves; and if there are brethren, men and women, then the male shall have the like of the portion of two females; Allah makes clear to you, lest you err; and Allah knows all things.
"Allah makes clear to you, lest you err; and Allah knows all things."
OK, so let's all remember that Allah makes it all clear to you because he knows all things. So, if we notice that three Muslims give three different answers (and they will), then there must be another contradiction...simply that Allah is not clear after all.
The Math and the mistake
So let's go back to the original question:
Now, calculate how to split the inheritance for a man how dies and leaves behind: 3 daughters, 2 parents and two wives.
3 daughters: x%
2 parents: y%
2 wives: z%
Here's the answer with the supporting quotes.
3 daughters: 2/3
4:11 : "if only daughters, 2 or more, their share is 2/3 of the inheritance"
2 parents: 1/6+1/6=1/3
4:11 : "For parents, a 1/6 share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children"
2 wives: 1/8
4:12 : "in what ye leave, their share is 1/4, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an 1/8"
Now, let's add up the inheritance divisions up:
2/3+1/3+1/8 = 9/8 >1
Mistake! Allah can't do math. How can you possibly give away more inheritance than you have? Now, I pointed out just one math mistake, but there are many. In the next set of posts I will go through the typical, albeit false, objections to Islamic mathematics.
Thursday, November 15, 2007
"1. Let's start with a mathematical mistake. This one is best to do on your own so that you can see the problems yourself. Go to the inheritance verses (4:11, 4:12 and 4:176), read them here: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html
Now, calculate how to split the inheritance for a man how dies and leaves behind: 3 daughters, 2 parents and two wives. It should take about 15 minutes.
3 daughters: x%
2 parents: y%
2 wives: z%
2. Historical mistake. The Quran plagiarizes much of the Bible. In the process of copying, sometimes Mohammad and his buddies got creative. In the following example, their creativity caused them to leave behind an obvious historical error. From the story of Joseph...
Here's the Bible:
40:18 Then Joseph answered and said, "This is its interpretation: the three baskets are three days;
40:19 within three more days Pharaoh will lift up your head from you and will hang you on a tree, and the birds will eat your flesh off you."
Now, here's the Quran (different translations listed below to make it easy):
YUSUFALI: "O my two companions of the prison! As to one of you, he will pour out the wine for his lord to drink: as for the other, he will hang from the cross, and the birds will eat from off his head. (so) hath been decreed that matter whereof ye twain do enquire"...
PICKTHAL: O my two fellow-prisoners! As for one of you, he will pour out wine for his lord to drink; and as for the other, he will be crucified so that the birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning which ye did inquire.
SHAKIR: O my two mates of the prison! as for one of you, he shall give his lord to drink wine; and as for the other, he shall be crucified, so that the birds shall eat from his head, the matter is decreed concerning which you inquired.
Did you see the difference? The Bible talked about decapitation followed by hanging. The Quran talked about crucifixion. That's where the error occurs. You see, archaeologists point out 6th century BC Persia as the earliest occurrence of crucifixion, yet the story of Joseph was over 10 centuries before that. The ancient Egyptians did not do crucifixion before the Roman's brought the practice over. Mohammad should be more careful when he plagiarizes.
3. How about another obvious one. You see Mohammad knew that the Christians believed in a son of god, so he assumed the Jews did too:
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
PICKTHAL: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
SHAKIR: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Mistake! Find me a Jew that talks about Ezra. You can't. Especially one that talks about Ezra being the son of god. You see, the Jews find the whole son of god thing to be blasphemous. They would not say it. Another Quran mistake."
There is enough here to start a conversation. In the next set of posts, I will go through the common counterarguments from Muslims and show you why they are false. First the Quran inheritance mistakes.
Sunday, November 11, 2007
Mohammad found wife beating quite alright, almost a fan you might say. Let's go to the Hadith: (read it carefully, a wife is bruised so green that she matches her clothing, but it is ok...Mohammad actually criticizes the woman in the end!). A thank you to answering-islam.org for finding it.
"Narrated Ikrima: 'Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married her. Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her (Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by the beating. It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's messenger came, Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes! When Abdur-Rahman heard that his wife had gone to the prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him, but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment. Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's messenger! She has told a lie. I am very strong and can satisfy her, but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifaa." Allah's messenger said to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifaa unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." The prophet saw two boys with Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that Abdur-Rahman said, "Yes." The prophet said, "You claim what you claim (that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow.""
Notice that the believing women suffer more than the rest. They get green bruises, but the prophet is ok with it.
Saturday, November 10, 2007
A glimpse into women's rights in Saudi Arabia.
As I said in an earlier post, a great way to get a Muslim woman thinking is by starting with Mohammad's pedophilia or Islam's violent sexism. Muslim's will generally deny the first (in the face of all evidence), but eventually succumb to the existence of sexism although twisting and turning with respect to the violent aspect.
The sexism is obvious, as can be found in the Skeptics Annotated Quran's section on Women. It's quite a long list, here is a subset of really loony verses:
- A woman is worth one-half a man. 2:282 ; and males are to inherit twice that of females. 4:11
- Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death. 4:15 ; but the wives of Mohammad will be punished double for lewdness! 33:30
- You can't have sex with married women, unless they are slaves obtained in war (with whom you may rape or do whatever you like). 4:24
- Don't pray if you are drunk, dirty, or have touched a woman lately. 4:43
- A husband can accuse his wife of adultery with only one witness. 24:6
- The wives of Mohammad are not like other women. They must not leave their houses. 33:32-33 [a little controlling, aren't we Mohammad?] ; oh, and Allah says it is lawful for Muhammad to marry any women he wants. 33:50-51
- If men must speak to Muhammad's wives they must speak from behind a curtain. And no one must ever marry one of his wives. 33:53
- The single-minded slaves of Allah will enjoy a Garden filled with lovely-eyed virgins. 37:40-48
- Allah will reward faithful Muslims after they die with "fair ones with wide, lovely eyes." 44:54
- Those in the Garden will be attended by immortal youths with wide, lovely eyes. 56:17-23
- Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 24:31
- Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Refuse to have sex with women from whom you fear rebellion, and scourge them. 4:34
The last verse mentioned is responsible for some horrific domestic violence, so let's examine further with the full translation:
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
For those doubters, I bolded the key parts. If you fear disloyalty, desertion or rebellion...beat your wives (of course after admonishing them and not sleeping with them). Now, in Yusuf Ali's version, the word "lightly" is added, but this was added for palatability not because the word is actually there. In the video at the top, you can see how "lightly" some are beaten.
In fact, the word in the Quran in 4:34 used for "beat" is "idreb". It is a conjugate of the word "daraba" which primarily means "to beat, strike, to hit" - Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic, page 538.
Here is a Quranic verse in which "idreb" is used:
8:12 - ""Strike" off their heads, "strike" off the very tips of their fingers!"
Don't believe the Muslim apologists. In the next post, I'll go through what Mohammad actually thought when "revealing" the Quran.
You see, Mohamed the pedophile liked the young girls: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron." He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?" (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17). Ah yes, and that is you can "thigh" an infant in many Muslim countries - thank you Mohammad:
Muhammad also had eyes for an infant girl, promising to marry her when she grows up. Ibn Ishaq places this event during the time of the Battle of Badr in 624 AD when Muhammad was roughly 54 years old. (Guillaume, pp. 310-312)
And so there is no Allah
Here's the main problem with "Mohammad was a victim of the times" excuse. Besides the fact that we demonstrated the excuse to be false (sex with 9 year olds was not customary), it also demonstrates the lack of a divine Allah. If there really were an omniscient, omnipotent being and a prophet named Mohammad, the duo would've created a religion for all times and Mohammad would've set an example for all times. A true divinely inspired prophet sets the custom not follows the custom. Mohammad's pedophilia justified pedophilia for ages and continues to justify it today. His example emboldened pedophiles in Muslim countries until this day. If Allah exists, he should be ashamed.
5. It was customary to marry that young
Fact: There is no record in ancient times demonstrating that it was customary to marry as young as Aisha. Nor does any historical record show such an age disparity between a 51 year old man and his marriage to a six year old. Finally, and most importantly, it was not customary for a 54 year old man to have sex with a 9 year old (especially one that played with dolls).
Proof - let's take a look at other ancient cultures:
Ancient Greece and Rome
Around AD 530, and at least as far back as the reign of Augustus, the legal minimum age of marriage for girls was 12 and for boys 14, and Roman children of the aristocracy married youngest.
In Ancient Greece, "[t]hough the marriage of a girl to a man twenty years her elder was common, sexual relations between the very young and very old were a standard subject for mirth". However, marriage was not as early as in Rome, possibly at age 18 for girls, but also to men a decade older, but at least 25.
Middle Ages Europe
Women were marriageable right after puberty, marriage arrangements were made while they were in infancy; they were wed at the age of twelve or fourteen to men in their twenties and thirties. The arrangements were often loveless political unions, certainly abusive by contemporary standards and conducive of great gaps in learning and maturity between wives and husbands.
Ancient Jewish culture
"For Jewish women--as for women in antiquity generally--marriage was often entered into early. We do not have many inscriptions recording the age at which women were married, but the few who record it mention ages varying from 12 to 18 years. 15 was probably an average age for a girl to marry.
Footnote: See Horsley, New Documents 4 (1987)222-227, on age at marriage. He states that the few data we have seem to suggest a higher marriage age for Jewish than for pagan girls."
...most Egyptian men were eager to follow the advice of the wisdom literature urging them to take a wife while still young so they could found a household and raise a family. Most men were married by the age of twenty to girls who might have been as young as fifteen. There was an age difference, but usually not more than two or three years.
So you see, you're instincts are right. It's unusual and sick to for a 54 year old man to have sex with a pre-pubescent 9 year old that is playing with dolls.
Next post...more examples of pedophilia in Islam.
1. Ages are wrong for any number of reasons usually that the Hadith are unreliable.
Fact: The Hadith I quoted are key to Islam and are considered part of the Sunnah accepted by all Muslims.
2. She was at puberty already
Fact: You read her own words - she was playing with dolls when she entered Mohammad's house as a bride. You can also see the narrator say that dolls were allowed only for girls before puberty
3. People matured at a faster rate in that region.
Fact: Average age for the first period is ~13 years, and it barely changes around the world.
http://www.mum.org/worldmen.jpg Also, puberty is a process taking 4 years on average, and a 9 year old wouldn't have the emotional maturity to handle it. It was rape for that reason. Mohamed should at least have waited until Aisha was done with puberty.
4. Aisha's parents agreed with her marrage
Fact: Her father objected:
Sahih Bukhari 7.18
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
Next post typical objections to Muhammad's pedophile history